fallen heroes?

Sometimes we really look up to people and hold them in high esteem. And then they make a mistake, atleast in our perception. Then we feel so terribly let down – that we may end up dismissing everything they ever said as false.

For example when so many passionate fans of cricket abruptly lost interest in the game after they match fixing was exposed.

I’d been astonished while reading in the fantastic biography (last year) of Sensei Morehei Ueshiba the founder of Aikido, a martial art where awareness is the key… that once while running to save a child, he tripped and fell down! Such a silly mistake, hardly befitting a man of his background 😀 [This was in a way kind of encouraging for me actually, to realise that after all even masters make mistakes… who am I… why must I expect some kind of perfection from myself…!]

Those were some trivial examples, but a major one where though I myself wasn’t affected, was the case of Richard Bach:

Author of several excellent books (mainly Jonathan Livingstone Seagull) – his book Bridge Across Forever was a love story based mostly on his real life.

Summary:

Much truer to an autobiographical style, “Bridge” is the story of how Richard and Leslie found each other, and what happened after. Richard always knew that there was one woman out there for him, his soulmate, but had a very hard time finding her. This book picks up where “Illusions” left off. Richard quits his flying to find his soulmate. The first part of the book leads you through the choppy starts and stops of many relationships. Then he begins a purely professional relationship with a beautiful actress named Leslie Parrish. This grows into a friendship based on long chess games, huge bowls of ice cream, and much respect. Still, Richard is sorting through the many other women in his life. When finally he realizes that Leslie is the one for which he has been waiting his whole life, he finds that he is not ready for the commitment that a soulmate deserves. The remainder of the book is their struggle. Richard is trying to become less self centered (something that is at the very core of what he is), and Leslie is trying to deal with Richard. It is a great period of growth for him; one with which we are all familiar in one way or another. Too much more would give too much away, but I promise that I haven’t even touched on the best parts of all.

(source – internet, but that link is dead now)

I actually read that book, and won’t give my opinion of it here as it would be a distraction, but the main point is that he had written about the most idealistic form of romantic love, far superior to the conventional love that we see in romantic movies.

While all that may sound very glamourous, it may also be noted that in real life, Richard and Leslie eventually ended up divorced. This caused a lot of anger in many fans – I remember seeing this on some site which happens to be pulled down now: they’d asked questions along the lines of was everything you had said false? I’m so disillusioned that there’s no real true love in the world… blah blah blah (plenty of swear words as well). And he ended up writing another short story to console them.

What was the point of the fans in putting someone high up in a pedestal and then throwing him down again later! Atleast as far as I was concerned, I felt that the ideas in the book made a lot of sense, irrespective of Bach’s personal life.

J Krishnamurthy aka JK, is considered an enlightnened man, and was a renouned humanitarian and philosopher. His disciple U.G. Krishnamurthy, aka UG, faithfully followed him for many years and suddenly turned against him, and is spending (he’s very much alive, and is based right here in Bangalore) the rest of his life criticising JK. When I listened to what both had to say, I somehow got the impression they were saying exactly the same thing 🙂 in different ways. Osho, yet another spiritual leader, had something similar to say:

If somebody brings up J. Krishnamurti’s name, he immediately condemns J. Krishnamurti — and whatever he is saying is just an imitation of J. Krishnamurti, paraphrasing.

Osho says a lot more in the above link, and now the whole thing looks like some kind of a political scene 😀

Earlier, I’d probably have been more concerned about laughing about the pettiness of the whole situation, and more interested in the criticism aspects in Osho’s words. I would’ve eventually ended up criticising Osho as well for his criticism, since UG is indeed a respectable character who can’t be totally written off just because of some vague incidents.

Thanks to the influence of my good friend Upendra, what really happened was that I sidestepped getting caught up in some useless analysis. Upendra keeps reminding me that words are said relevant only in that particular era or some particular context, and when we see excerpts or quotes recorded by faithful disciples, they might be totally irrelevant, so take what is useful and ignore the rest!!

An example is that Buddha had said he did not want women as a part of the group of monks. This taken by itself would make Buddha seem to be a major male chauvinist – which would’ve been quite incorrect since Buddha was full of compassion even to the smallest and most insignificant (apparently) of creatures. [Btw it was Ananda who asked Buddha “are women not capable of enlightenment?” and when Buddha answered Yes, he convinced him to allow women as well. The reason for refusal became apparent later, when some nuns ended up becoming pregnant… 😉 ]

I’m not a keen follower of this mailing list by an anonymous guru, but so far I’ve found a couple of messages relevant to me… and remembered one in the current context, where he says:

There is a difference between enlightenment (in the light) and perfection (always right). The first is real. The second is an illusion.

So more than the criticism, I found Osho’s comments about Ramana Maharishi were really insightful.

So what I’ve learnt at this point is to not be judgemental, to not dismiss what someone’s saying just because of some particular statements or particular incidents. Everybody has something to say, so give them a fair hearing, and then decide to either accept it or ignore/forget it.

32 Responses to “fallen heroes?”

  1. Prasad Says:

    Sir/Mad’am,
    Could you please provide me the address of Mr.UG. I’m desperate to meet him.

    Thanking you,
    Prasad
    pmprasadpm@rediffmail.com

  2. msanjay Says:

    Prasad, just go look in a mirror! 8) What do you think is the difference between UG and yourself?

    In my (unasked for) opinion, I feel being desperate to meet UG goes against everything UG has said :mrgreen:

    Afaik UG is never at one place for long, he keeps moving in an unplanned way… meeting him is merely a matter of happening to be in the right place at the right time. Anyway, maybe someone replies to your request… good luck! 🙂

  3. usha Says:

    Prasad

    All that i know is UG stays in a house in Banashankari III stage near water tank when he visits bangalore. I will be able to give exact address/ number after a week’s time. Currently UG is not in Bangalore. He left for Switzerland and further to USA just last month.

    This house is near a park and water tank, in Banashankari III stage (Kathriguppa)

    -USha

  4. msanjay Says:

    Some more UG related info from the UG group of orkut:

    ——

    U.G. Krishnamurti. The Divine Anarchist
    by Mariana Caplan

    ———-
    Pradeep: 4/9/2006 1:52 AM
    I’ve met UG!

    Hi,

    I’ve seen UG while he was in blore .. in dec 2004 and again this march 2006.

    I had already read the opinion
    http://www.spiritualteachers.org/ug_1opinion.html
    posted by some1…

    and you can really feel it if you meet UG

    You dont need to talk a word. You will surely get wat u want.. nothing more nothing less…

    Julie Thayer might be knowing that.
    Post a query in: http://www.julius.it/ugkrishnamurti

    want vs meet 4/27/2006 9:34 AM
    it depends on why do you want to meet UG..

    if you go as a seeker or harbour the feeling inside you that you have got UGs message by (suppressing or avoiding) the want to meet him??
    its one and the same.

    meeting UG is a personal thing. As a friend(?), just like you visit a nature spot.. i see UG as natural life force in action.. Nothing more!

    ————

    Swa 5/18/2006 8:50 AM:

    He’s now taking care of his grand-son and doesn’t meet anyone anymore…

    ————

  5. Roopadarshi Says:

    If you are interested in the works of UG, here is the link: http://www.well.com/user/jct/

  6. Brijinder Says:

    RAJNEESH CONTRA OSHO

    One repays a teacher badly, if one always remains a pupil only. Why do you not pluck at my wreath?

    -Nietzsche

    For me, Rajneesh I know as a master, died in early seventies during his early Poona days, though I came across him, around 1977, through his books. Due to my limited exposure then, I had a fleeting knowledge of a mystic called Acharya Rajneesh operating from Poona. I accidentally came across one of his books and I was jolted out of a deep psychological slumber. I, for the first time in life, could clearly see myself with all my acquired crutched. It was the beginning of an active doubt – quest towards self-discovery. My priorities were changed overnight. I was started on a wonderful exploration Nietzsche, Krishnamurti, Bubber, Tao, Zen, Hassids, Gibran, Fritz Perls, Alan Watts, Gibran, Encounter groups, and Upanishads etc. were the strange keys he was dropping for my inner locks. It is only through him that I am able, today, to stand up against him. Thank you, Rajneesh! This attack is, as Nietzsche said, ’an act of gratitude’ on my part.

    I can never, even now, utter “Bhagwan Shree” or “Osho” without feeling embarrassed, for these were alien to my whole understanding of Acharya Rajneesh.

    Acharya Rajneesh, I knew, was a supreme iconoclast with a sharp, shrewd and analytical mind who used logic to give a glimpse of transcendental wisdom. I was enthralled by his erudite exposition and unconventional approach to anything he touched upon in his discourses. He presented hitherto unexplored perspective of various thoughts. Rajneesh spoke in sheer poetry and pregnant silences. His method was allegorical and retained a wonderful cathartic humour. He was brilliantly using intellect to de-intellectualize the people and to let them see things beyond their intellectual conceptualization of them. His language was contemporary and devoid of verbosity, which like me, emboldened many to seek the thinkers whom he was continuously and lovingly expounding and who had earlier seemed forbidding.

    It was Rajneesh, who sowed the seeds of honest enquiry in me. I came to question my long acquired prejudices and my conditioned aspiration of life and its fixed goals. He instilled in me the difference between ‘open and responsive’ and being ‘obedient and slavish’. His habit of name dropping, of brilliant men and women he had come to admire through his extensive readings, was the gateway for me, to explore and experience myself the various thinkings of modern and ancient times. And this wonderland was an enchanting and fulfilling tapestry of modern and ancient philosophies, psychologies, nearly mystical experiments of modern sciences and what not.

    Each of these experiences changed my world–view in a profound way – subtly preparing me through intellectual stimulation for deep psychological journey. While exposure to Nietzsche completely changed my philosophical outlook; Alan Watts gave me a perspective on spirituality. While Fritz Perls, Sheldon Kopp prepared the psychological ground and Zen, Tao, Krishnamurti; Gurdjieff etc. put me on never ending process of integration. My own poetry took a totally different direction; I was, at last, trying to stand on my own. My total lack of professional aspirations was making my nears and dears miserable but I was, for the first time in my life, experiencing strange dimension where quest is a reward. All of this was happening because of Rajneesh’s first spark, which he put in me through his discourses. Ah! I must tell the readers that all this is not to daunt you with my intellectual (which is so little!) snobbery but simply to share the mile – stones of my inner journey.

    Rajneesh started as a social philosopher who was trying to awaken the youth into action based on the psychological understanding of the issues. Born a Jain, he soon attracted rich Jain young people who perhaps saw in him a possible “Tirthankar” or were simply fired by his powerful and revelatory oration. At that time Rajneesh was simply concerned with the awakening of the healthy doubt among people about the various institutions, which had degenerated into vices. The people around him formed ‘Jan Jagriti Kendra’, an organization of progressive people aimed at the transformation of the society. Slowly Rajneesh ventured into religion when he started giving discourses on man’s inner potentials and later his simple yet powerful dynamic meditation. The ideas, if not original, were told in a fresh way, peppered with metaphorical tales to hammer the point. The lectures were short and unrepetitive. He used his great argumentative method to demolish the myths of institutions like marriage, religion, state etc. these discourses were authoritative, scholarly, stimulating and carried an inherent sound wisdom. He was growing into a modern seer who, with his sensitive and restrained manner and inspired conviction, was breaking people’s somnabulance and their conformity.

    His ideas on sexuality were far ahead of the Indian morality of his times, though those were quite near the latest scientific findings. He forced the people to see sexuality in healthier and normal manner. He was perhaps the only contemporary spiritual leader to speak on sex so forthrightly. He returned the dignity to sex, exploding the myth of Christian–guilt, reinterpreting the ancient Indian seers‘ vision of sex in a contemporary vocabulary.

    The Acharya who had said that imposing a code of dress or rituals is a spiritual crime; was undergoing a change himself. Unlike Nietzsche, his favourite philosopher, he discarded the role of spiritual “buffoon” and became a Guru. The skeptic deserted himself in order to ‘enlighten’ many. It was all against which Rajneesh had previously stood for. He was compromising his spiritual as well as philosophical stand for man’s freedom, even from God. This Rajneesh who had now claimed himself “Bhagwan Shree”, had catapulted himself to a long and endless ego trip. In a prophetic moment, Rajneesh had observed that the price of peaks is sometimes paid by being plunged into deep valleys. He was no longer a man who talked of never ending inner journeys, who was eloquently opposed to the spiritual slavery and mocked Gurudoms. When I came across his first book, where prefix of his name was changed to “Bhagwan Shree” I was aghast but my gratitude over-whelmed me and I convinced myself with his clever explanations.

    He was still charming with his words, had rather bloomed and honed his style. His discourses were now well-orchestrated events. The entry, the pauses, the unblinking hypnotic stare, the raunchy joked in the climax were stage-managed to the perfection but now lacked the gentle but sure prodding of the mind, the sincerity of a skeptic and restrain of the seer.

    I was in turmoil, for I was seeing what I was not ready to acknowledge. He was like an intoxicated scholar, who even while losing his grip on himself still retained cultured and sophisticated flow of words through slurs and hiccups.

    His discourses were still evocative and alluring. Of late he started a new line of his spiritual merchandise having a high emotive quality, with the discourses on Sufis and bhaktas. This was the merciless manipulation of the simple people, having already won the intellectuals and aesthetes. He was to later speak disparagingly, viciously attacking the same mystics he had earlier elevated by his illumination words. This intellectual giant was bale to make the logic stand on it’s head any mesmerize the people by his verbal-jugglery. Now too sure of his position and his disciple’s blind adulation, he did not care much to hide his motives. He claimed that the mystics and thinkers were mere pegs on which he was hanging his thoughts. A great psychological tool to be handled with utmost dexterity and love was being abused with impunity!

    I was alone in my disagreement among the people around me. The conformists, after shunning him for his iconoclastic stand, were now flocking to him to hear him speak soothingly and assuring that all was well with them indeed. The old disciples were by then too programmed to know the difference.

    People who came in contact with him started performing at their optimum level, but then it is an established psychological observation that the results of imagined or induced euphoria, like threat, are the same as those of real euphoria or threat. These people were, like in a Pavlovian experiment, provided with exceptional motivation and thus were giving their best. The industrial progress of Hitler’s Germany is another sad and not so distant example. The spiritual and psychological bankruptcy was the cost of having those optimum creative levels.

    The disciples were not longer encouraged to seek their own answers. If one showed the signs of resolving his or her confusion, he or she was snubbed and then very subtly maneuvered to revert to his confusions and to have faith, for psychological salvation, not in himself but in all – knowing master. This was a criminal manipulation of fine and sensitive minds. Rajneesh who used to provoke the people into finding the answers for themselves, by posing stimulating and provoking questions, was issuing irons – clad statements and edicts.

    In the whole commune of thousands of people only two people were bestowed the privileged of being called ‘enlightened’ and that too posthumously! Only because these were also socially two most privileged people. One was his father and other was Vimal Kirti, the prince of a western country – the most visible disciple. Rajneesh could not bear to declare any body his equal during his life. They were ‘enlightened’, according to Rajneesh, at the time of their death. One was the personal vanity and the other a market strategy. So much for their ‘enlightenment!’

    The Oregon days, his subsequent globe trotting for a place to restart his commune and final coming to Poona were at once sad and self-revelatory for the discernible. The enthusiastic and creative people around him, who were infused by his visionary dreams, transformed Rajneesh Puram, once a barren and arid land of 64 thousand acres, into an agricultural and aesthetic marvel. These very sincere people were exposed to the subtle programming of mind. There was arrogance towards local population and there never was felt and earnest need to win their trust. Bodyguards; wire-tapping and psychologically subversive methods were being adopted to coerce the disciples into submission. An assured professional briskness was apparent in all such deeds in a commune of supposedly spiritual people. Rajneesh was an abettor of all these by his now not so eloquent silences. He even gave the stamp of his approval to all this when somebody showed some misgivings. All this garish display of wealth, power and unquestioned authority were not the signs of a spiritually arrived man, though these were surely the symptoms of a highly motivated, manipulative and extraordinarily clever ego.

    The unruly impulses in Rajneesh were claiming him more rapidly and visibly. Post–Oregon era saw Rajneesh with the wild sense of grandeur and paranoia, sense of persecution. The previous wit and humour was replaced with vindictive and insulting jibes at personalities. The discourses were becoming long, torturous and repetitive monologues. The jokes, increasingly stale and offensive, were merely titillating instead of having the previous cathartic and many times, illumination quality. The catholicity of the visionary became the grotesque ranting of a man obsessed with having an unrivalled place in the history of human kind. Every thinker, mystic and philosopher was imperiously denounced and their visions deride at. They were all, now, the contemptuous minor figures of history whose little, if any, insights even owed their debts to the new interpretation by this modern master. The skeptic had returned in Rajneesh but it was not the old skeptic whose penetrating insights were infused with the mystical vision and loving empathy. This skeptic was derisive, dismissive, offensively contemptuous, intolerant and not patient, analytical, loving and compassionate.

    The mala (necklace) with “Bhagwan Shree” in the locket and orange dress-code were certainly not the signs of a previous great skeptic. These were the signs of a sick man, who after coming in position of authority and by the virtue of his charisma, was fulfilling his narcissistic and juvenile wishes. This extremely photogenic man was, like Narcissus, becoming a victim of himself. The ever-growing crowds around him were like psychological assurances to his crumbling, once robust, self.

    During his late pre-Oregon days, he actively created a myth around him. The precise date was arrived at to give credence and ritualisticity to his alleged enlightenment. The story of his ‘previous births’ was fed to the credulous pupils.

    On my side, my disillusionment was now not merely sentimental but strong intellectual as well as spiritual disenchantment. There was also a profound grief on seeing the precursor of my quest falling down and being way laid by himself.

    Once again Nietzsche’s advice echoed in my mind ‘Where one can no longer love, there should one_ _pass by!’ and I took his counsel.

    What happened later was rather predictable. It was a progressive degeneration of a man whom I once so loved and admired. He was thoroughly enjoying the status of being “one man industry” and a showman par excellence. But this was not the joy of a man who had found his center. Crowds around him, like any charismatic leader, were perpetrating his sickness by transforming themselves to it and by feeling gratitude in fulfilling his every infantile tantrum. Diamond studded watched and head gears, ninety two Rolls-Royces, exclusively for himself and expensive clothes were the toys which were still proving insufficient o fill his inner vacuum.

    Like his life, his death is also tinged with controversy. His body was laid for public view only for ten minutes and hastily consigned to the fires.

    Rajneesh of a wholesome, healthy, transcendental, liberating and integrating vision had died for me long ago while “Bhagwan Shree”, ”Zorba the Buddha” or now “Osho” left his body on 19th January 1990. The sudden interest and slow deification after his death by the populace is the predictable phenomenon of human kind. Like my Rajneesh, I too stand against this psychological status –quo. I, like my first master, Rajneesh, intend to create controversy through this writing but which should not culminate in the total negation of Rajneesh, rather it should help, by dispassionate enquiry, to rediscover his holistic and psychologically liberating vision through the process of elimination of the unessential.

    Thank you, Rajneesh, for kindling in me the sense of independence of soul. I abide by the sage advice of Nietzsche, whom you introduced to me: “Independence of soul–that is at stake here ! No sacrifice can be great! Even one’s dearest friend one must be willing to sacrifice for it, though he be the most glorious human being.”

    Brijinder ‘Sagar’

  7. msanjay Says:

    Fascinating story Brijender, thank you – really made excellent reading. I read it a couple of times at different times. Rajneesh has been a much misunderstood individual, and I’m optimistic that our society is better able to understand him now than before.

    One point that occurred to me while reading was that different shifts in perception over time could also have another factor as depicted in this article on: mango tree remained the same.

    Btw here’s an amazing account on Osho’s death that I’d come across a few months ago: What did Osho die from?

    Thanks to you I went through it again. I have no doubts about its authenticity. This particular excerpt was really striking (emphasis mine)…

    It is said that history repeats itself. It is not history that repeats itself; it is the unconsciousness of man, the blindness of man that repeats itself. The day man will be conscious, alert and aware, there will not be any repetition anymore. Socrates will not be poisoned, Jesus will not be crucified, Al-Hillaj Mansoor will not be murdered and butchered. And these are our best flowers, they are our highest peaks. They are our destinies, they are our future. They are our intrinsic potential which has become actual.

  8. Brijinder"Sagar" Says:

    any comments???I posted it long back ans was expecting some lively interaction.

  9. Chris Maurice Says:

    You are wrong, Mr. Author.

    U.G. was never a disciple of J.K. although they had met numerous times and knew each other well.

  10. home Says:

    nldqbrrbwbxyirtxgwkgparzqbrfknsuuhhountymnrtkqijmmmmkoctypjqghdc

  11. home Says:

    ftrlivrfiwkmyufqtzvhunfdyzmxbqhnhqtjwjzqepfqjpdkqfpvpsgkme

  12. website Says:

    What i don’t realize is in reality how you are now not
    really much more well-appreciated than you
    might be now. You’re so intelligent. You recognize thus significantly in the
    case of this topic, made me individually believe it from numerous numerous angles.

    Its like women and men don’t seem to be fascinated until
    it is something to do with Lady gaga! Your own stuffs great.
    Always care for it up!

  13. https://kyungsan-opanma.blogspot.com Says:

    Hi there! Do you know if they make any plugins to help with SEO?

    I’m trying to get my blog to rank for some targeted
    keywords but I’m not seeing very good success. If you know
    of any please share. Appreciate it!

  14. https://okchon-kropmasasage.blogspot.com Says:

    Do you have any video of that? I’d like to find out more details.

  15. https://geoje-kropanma.blogspot.com Says:

    Hello to every body, it’s my first pay a visit of this blog; this weblog consists of
    remarkable and actually excellent stuff for readers.

  16. https://damyang-opmassage.blogspot.com Says:

    I’m very happy to find this page. I need to to thank you for ones time for
    this wonderful read!! I definitely loved every little bit of
    it and I have you book marked to look at new stuff in your website.

  17. https://youngdeok-massage.blogspot.com Says:

    Great post. I used to be checking continuously this blog and I am inspired!
    Extremely useful info particularly the final phase 🙂 I handle such info much.
    I was looking for this certain info for a long time. Thanks
    and best of luck.

  18. https://qingdao-softmassage7.blogspot.com Says:

    Very nice write-up. I certainly love this website.

    Thanks!

  19. https://chung-cheong-bukdo-anma0.blogspot.com Says:

    Howdy terrific blog! Does running a blog such as this require a great
    deal of work? I’ve virtually no understanding of coding but I had been hoping to start
    my own blog in the near future. Anyways, if you have any ideas or techniques for new blog owners please share.
    I know this is off subject nevertheless I simply needed to ask.
    Thanks!

  20. https://grant-opanma.blogspot.com Says:

    If some one wishes expert view on the topic of
    blogging and site-building after that i suggest him/her
    to pay a visit this blog, Keep up the good job.

  21. https://www.3dspace.kr/ Says:

    It’s genuinely very complicated in this active life to listen news on TV,
    so I simply use internet for that reason, and get the newest news.

  22. https://incheon-opanma.blogspot.com Says:

    Have you ever thought about creating an e-book or guest authoring
    on other websites? I have a blog centered on the same information you discuss and would really like to
    have you share some stories/information. I know my audience would value
    your work. If you are even remotely interested, feel free to
    shoot me an e-mail.

  23. https://duckbill-Kelvin.blogspot.com Says:

    Hello it’s me, I am also visiting this web site
    regularly, this site is actually pleasant and the people are really sharing pleasant thoughts.

  24. Pasarqq Says:

    Thanks , I have recently been searching for info about this subject
    for ages and yours is the best I’ve came upon till now.
    But, what about the conclusion? Are you positive concerning the
    source?

  25. officesetup.com Says:

    whoah this blog is excellent i like studying your posts.
    Keep up the good work! You know, many people are looking round for this information, you could aid them greatly.

  26. Crazy Bulk Says:

    No matter if some one searches for his necessary thing, therefore he/she wants to
    be available that in detail, therefore that thing is maintained over here.

  27. قضيب ذكري Says:

    I’m more than happy to uncover this great site.

    I wanted to thank you for ones time due to this wonderful read!!
    I definitely savored every little bit of it and I have you saved as a favorite to look at new stuff in your web site.

  28. Elissa Says:

    I incorporate 2 pcs: I get hold of one particular the “superior” personal computer — it is made up of 2 screens.
    The other is my “junk” laptop or computer with a person display the place I down load a
    whole lot of things in direction of it.. . If I sought after
    in direction of commence working with either personal computers yet basically with the twin screens, what would I need to
    have in the direction of invest in? Is there some
    type of splitter I can obtain that will allow for me in the direction of
    swap among every CPU? Where by can I get a single if it does within reality exist?
    Will I nevertheless be capable toward employ just one mouse and keyboard?.

  29. Gentleman Dresscode Says:

    Doskonały wpis, w sumie to ma sens, jednakże w niektórych kwestiach bym się kłóciła.
    Z pewnością Twój blog zasługuje na uznanie. Jestem pewna, że tu jeszcze wpadnę.

  30. Roulette - 5Bintang Kasino Says:

    I loved this post! I read your blog fairly often and you are always coming out with some great stuff.
    I will shares this on my facebook, instagram and some of my
    loyalty followers. Great jobs! Keep work it with it.

  31. PCB design Says:

    you are in reality a just right webmaster.

    The web site loading pace is incredible. It kind of feels that you are doing
    any distinctive trick. Also, The contents are masterpiece.
    you’ve performed a excellent task on this
    matter!

  32. nike magista opus ii para hombre negroazul extraordinarioaluminioblanco_863 Says:

    nike magista opus ii para hombre negroazul extraordinarioaluminioblanco_863

    blog topic

Leave a Reply